Meeting log for 2008-03-19

[MJ Ray]

HIGHLIGHTS

<bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found
on the web at:
http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/2008/2008-03-19.html

<bdale> Nothing new to report.

<schultmc> I don't have a formal report but do have some informal
information to report. We've migrated our data entry system to an SPI
machine and are working on new accounting software. Our account
balances: checking $16,229.31, savings 126,230.68 we also have
~$13,000 in an ameriprise investment account - I've got a request in
with ameriprise to deal with that account.  By the April 2008 meeting,
I hope to have a proper treasurer report.  I apologize for the delay.

<Maulkin> Ok, we've had a request for our 1023, which I believe is
something we need to provide by the IRS I could be wrong here though
:) I don't hold this item, so I can't provide it. It seems easy enough
to get hold of one though.  I'm afraid I'm not up to speed with the
IRS regulations in that regard.
<schultmc> bdale: I need to submit a form and wait for the IRS to mail
back copies of our 1023
<schultmc> Hydroxide: I expect at least a status update before the
April meeting

<Maulkin> no mail has been received to secretary@ that is either a)
publically discloseable, b) isn't already available in public spi
lists or c) isn't spam

<Maulkin> Afriad we do have two sets [of minutes], but they're not
ready for voting on.  Apologies for this, the delayed meeting confused
me somewhat.

[item 7.1, New board member] <Maulkin> Postponed. (more info not public yet)

<Maulkin> [
http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2008-March/002565.html
] For info: this is proceedural, so I'm happy to waive the standard
required-time-before-meeting thing
<luk> I don't think it's ready to vote on... because I don't think
Debian wants that every t-shirt and mug is accompanied by a flyer or
worse solutions to include the notices for that matter
<linuxpoet> Question: How was this resolution brought to the board?
Did the LIaison or Debian Board Observer submit it?
<Hydroxide> linuxpoet: yes.

Voting results for "Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.[2] - Fixing the Debian
Open Use Logo License": Yes: 7, No: 0, Abstain: 2, Missing: 0 ()

Next board meeting will be on Wednesday 16th Apr, 2008 - 19:00 UTC


TIMED LOG

19:00:06 <bdale> *GAVEL*
19:00:06 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of di
19:00:06 <bdale> rectors meeting, which is now called to order.
19:00:06 <bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/agenda/2008/2008-03-19.html
19:00:17 <bdale> [item 2, Roll Call]
19:00:17 <bdale> Board members, please state your name for the record.  As we have nine board mem
19:00:17 <bdale> bers, quorum for today's meeting is six.
19:00:17 <bdale> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Maulkin if you wish
19:00:19 <bdale>  your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
19:00:19 <bdale> Neil, any regrets?
19:00:25 <luk> Luk Claes
19:00:27 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
19:00:27 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
19:00:28 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
19:00:29 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
19:00:34 <BrucePerens> Maulkin is away.
19:01:33 <Maulkin> Lo
19:01:39 <Maulkin> Neil McGovern
19:01:41 <bdale> cool.  quorum met.
19:01:43 <Hydroxide> hi there :)
19:02:05 <Maulkin> Apologies, traffic
19:02:18 <bdale> Maulkin: any regrets?  Ganneff was a maybe but is here.
19:02:26 <Maulkin> Only Ganneff
19:02:34 - KaareMobile!~KaareMobi at bibob-nat.mobil.telenor.no has joined #spi
19:02:34 <cdlu> David Graham
19:02:42 <bdale> ok
19:02:48 <cdlu> sorry, got distracted
19:02:50 <bdale> [item 3, President's Report]
19:02:50 <bdale> Nothing new to report.
19:02:50 <bdale> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
19:02:50 <bdale> Michael?
19:03:19 <schultmc> I don't have a formal report but do have some informal information to report.
19:03:42 <schultmc> We've migrated our data entry system to an SPI machine and are working on new accounting software.
19:04:02 <schultmc> Our account balances: checking - $16,229.31, savings 126,230.68
19:04:15 - dc0e!~dc0e at c-69-243-116-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04:37 <schultmc> we also have ~$13,000 in an ameriprise investment account - I've got a request in with ameriprise to deal with that account
19:05:03 <schultmc> By the April 2008 meeting, I hope to have a proper treasurer report.  I apologize for the delay.
19:05:06 <schultmc> </done>
19:05:23 - dc0e!~dc0e at c-69-243-116-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net has joined #spi
19:05:26 <luk> so a negative balance on the checking account?
19:05:45 <schultmc> luk: sorry, that was instead of a colon
19:05:53 <schultmc> it is a positive balance
19:06:07 <luk> ok, just wanted to be sure
19:06:20 <linuxpoet> here
19:06:24 <bdale> ok, thanks.  I'm really looking forward to a return to regular monthly reports starting next month.  If there's anything I or the rest of the board can/should do to help ensure that happens, let us know.
19:06:33 <bdale> [item 5, Secretary's report]
19:06:33 <bdale> Neil?
19:06:39 <Maulkin> Just a sec...
19:06:52 <linuxpoet> sorry I was late
19:07:16 <bdale> linuxpoet: s'ok, we hit quorum without you and haven't voted on anything yet
19:07:31 <Hydroxide> linuxpoet: care you state your name for the record for any observers who don't know you? :)
19:07:37 <Hydroxide> s/care you/care to/
19:07:44 <linuxpoet> Joshua Drake
19:07:48 <Maulkin> Ok, we've had a request for our 1023, which I believe is something we need to provide by the IRS
19:07:55 <Maulkin> I could be wrong here though :)
19:08:03 <cdlu> hydroxide, more for rapid minuteer nick-name mapping :)
19:08:07 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: we are required to provide that, yes
19:08:24 <bdale> who has a copy, schultmc?
19:08:39 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
19:08:40 <Maulkin> I don't hold this item, so I can't provide it. It seems easy enough to get hold of one though.
19:08:42 * schultmc doesn't have a copy but is working with the IRS to get one
19:08:44 <zobel> sorry for being late
19:08:57 <bdale> Maulkin: what's the urgency on the request?
19:09:04 <bdale> zobel: welcome!
19:09:12 <Maulkin> whois zobel 
19:09:14 <Maulkin> bah
19:09:25 <Maulkin> < zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
19:09:51 <Maulkin> bdale: I have no idea I'm afraid. I would imagine getting it sooner rather than later would be good though
19:10:06 <Maulkin> I'm afraid I'm not up to speed with the IRS regulations in that regard.
19:10:09 <bdale> schultmc: where are you in the process?  anything we can/should do to speed it up?
19:10:19 <Hydroxide> schultmc: do you think you'll either be able to have it resolved or at least have a status update from the IRS on our request before our April meeting?
19:10:24 <sam> 'evening.
19:10:36 <luk> hi sam
19:10:38 <Hydroxide> hi Sam
19:10:38 <schultmc> bdale: I need to submit a form and wait for the IRS to mail back copies of our 1023
19:10:46 - RichiH!richih at richih.netrep.oftc.net has joined #spi
19:10:55 <schultmc> Hydroxide: I expect at least a status update before the April meeting
19:11:17 <bdale> schultmc: ok, with a pending request for the form, please give this an appropriate sense of urgency
19:11:24 <bdale> Maulkin: anything else?
19:11:26 <schultmc> bdale: understood
19:11:27 <Maulkin> Yup
19:11:27 <Hydroxide> schultmc: sounds good. if you mail the form out soon and keep the requester up to date on the status, that sounds good
19:11:50 <Maulkin> I received a mail from linuxpoet, but I don't know if that's public information; linuxpoet?
19:12:06 <linuxpoet> uhhh
19:12:13 <linuxpoet> can you pm me the context
19:13:13 * bdale taps his fingers
19:13:20 <Maulkin> Just a sec... :)
19:13:21 <Maulkin> Working on it
19:13:30 * slef pours a drink from bdale's fingers and passes it to Maulkin
19:13:54 <Maulkin> no mail has been received to secretary@ that is either a) publically discloseable, b) isn't already available in public spi lists or c) isn't spam
19:14:00 * Hydroxide looks at slef strangely
19:14:00 <Maulkin> <done>
19:14:06 <bdale> ok, thanks
19:14:13 <bdale> [item 6, Outstanding minutes]
19:14:13 <bdale> Neil?
19:14:25 <Maulkin> Afriad we do have two sets, but they're not ready for voting on.
19:14:41 <bdale> sigh.  they'll be ready by next meeting?
19:14:46 <Maulkin> Apologies for this, the delayed meeting confused me somewhat
19:14:52 <Maulkin> Absolutely
19:14:54 <bdale> ok, thanks
19:15:01 <bdale> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
19:15:01 <bdale> [item 7.1, New board member]
19:15:01 <bdale> Neil?
19:15:26 <Maulkin> Postponed.
19:15:31 <bdale> ok
19:15:36 <Maulkin> (more info not public yet)
19:15:45 <bdale> ok
19:15:49 <bdale> Jimmy, I believe you have a late-breaking resolution you'd like us to vote on that didn't make the agenda?
19:16:00 <Maulkin> [ http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2008-March/002565.html ]
19:16:09 <Hydroxide> is that the revised version?
19:16:16 * Maulkin nods
19:16:16 <Hydroxide> it was a small but important tweak
19:16:17 <Hydroxide> ok
19:16:22 <bdale> discussion?
19:16:35 * Maulkin assigns it 2008-03-19.jrk.2
19:16:58 <bdale> sam: want to say anything about this?
19:17:04 <Maulkin> For info: this is proceedural, so I'm happy to waive the standard required-time-before-meeting thing
19:17:11 <luk> like I said before the meeting, I don't see why the copyright notice and permission notice has to be included when the logo is used
19:17:43 <Maulkin> luk: see revised version? :)
19:18:19 <sam> bdale: I'm just confused by luk's remark
19:18:39 <Hydroxide> luk: to the extent that's still true in the revised version, it was the Debian project's choice to use the MIT license as per http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/02/msg00019.html and I wasn't going to override that
19:18:57 <Hydroxide> luk: but it was more true than necessary in the resolution's original versions, which is why i revised it
19:19:59 <Maulkin> Hydroxide: AIUI, it also includes the closed use version
19:20:13 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: that was changed in my resolution based on the legal advice we received from Greg
19:20:20 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: with the approval of the DPL
19:20:39 <Hydroxide> sam can confirm this, or you can read scrollback from a couple hours before the meeting :)
19:20:44 <Maulkin> Hydroxide: The advice from greg was that it shoudn't apply to the text Debian.
19:20:46 <bdale> so the current resolution is to relicense just the open use logo variant that does not include the 'Debian' text?
19:20:52 <Hydroxide> bdale: yes
19:20:56 <luk> Hydroxide: that only mentions a request for discussion, no decision...
19:20:58 <Maulkin> The closed version without the text is also fine.
19:20:59 - dc0e!~dc0e at c-69-243-116-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net has quit [Quit: ↻ or ↓]
19:21:11 <sam> yes, Greg advised against changing anything about the official logo
19:21:14 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: not if Debian wants to enforce the closed version without the text as an unregistered trademark
19:21:22 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: which that mail still did
19:21:32 <Hydroxide> Maulkin: also see sam's comments :)
19:21:35 <Maulkin> ahh, ack
19:21:51 <luk> sam: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
19:21:52 <sam> I don't want to open a Pandora's box when the real urgency is simply to have a free-as-in-beer logo
19:21:56 <bdale> I'm ok with voting for this resolution.  if there are other changes that should be made for the other logo variants, we can handle those through additional resolutions in the future.
19:22:08 <luk> where in the
19:22:08 <luk> phrase "this software and associated documentation files", the subphrase
19:22:08 <luk> "this software" shall refer to the logo itself
19:22:13 <Maulkin> Well, we can vote now, or shove an email one through. I think it's simple enough that it'll pass.
19:22:18 <Maulkin> bdale: ack
19:22:23 * Maulkin moves so
19:22:32 * linuxpoet seconded
19:22:32 * schultmc seconds
19:22:45 <Maulkin> My vote lines are missing, so:
19:22:48 <luk> I don't think it's ready to vote on...
19:22:55 <bdale> luk: why not?
19:22:55 <sam> luk: this is similar to Sun's licence for Duke (https://duke.dev.java.net/)
19:23:41 <luk> because I don't think Debian wants that every t-shirt and mug is accompanied by a flyer
19:24:43 <luk> or worse solutions to include the notices for that matter
19:24:54 <jcristau> luk: that's debian's decision, not spi's
19:24:57 <Hydroxide> luk: it could also probably be just on a sign visible at the place where they're giving out the T-shirts
19:24:57 <bdale> luk: whether Debian chooses to enforce that term of the license against is an interesting question
19:25:03 <luk> jcristau: there was no decision
19:25:03 <slef> luk: most of them are in packets. Print it on the packet, or on the display stand they're sold from.
19:25:08 <bdale> s/is an/itself is an/
19:25:42 <Hydroxide> luk: the DPL has made the request of SPI with this license specified
19:25:43 <linuxpoet> Question: How was this resolution brought to the board? Did the LIaison or Debian Board Observer submit it?
19:25:47 <linuxpoet> oh
19:25:51 <linuxpoet> well that answers my question
19:25:52 <Hydroxide> linuxpoet: yes.
19:26:02 <linuxpoet> Well then I don't think it is really up to us to discuss Debian's intent
19:26:09 <linuxpoet> We just need to vote
19:26:12 <bdale> luk: from where I sit, the project had a discussion, the results of which were presented to SPI by the DPL, and we have a resolution on the table.
19:26:34 <luk> sure, that's from an SPI point of view
19:26:50 <Ganneff> which is what we are.
19:27:01 <luk> so if you all want to vote, I won't stop you, though I don't think it's ready to vote on
19:27:13 <bdale> luk: this is an SPI meeting, so that's the relevant point of view.  I have no problem if you want to take this matter up with the DPL or the rest of the project, but that's a little bit out of scope for this meeting.
19:27:23 <Hydroxide> luk: then abstain or vote no.
19:27:29 <luk> well if it was not last minute
19:27:37 <luk> there would have been discussion before the meeting
19:27:46 <Maulkin> We can probably do this via email.
19:27:46 <luk> which could have avoided this altogether
19:27:50 <Hydroxide> luk: it wasn't last-minute. this was just passing a vote to ratify stuff that was mentioned last May and June
19:27:55 <Hydroxide> luk: and reported in SPI meeting minutes
19:28:35 <Maulkin> bdale: your call.
19:28:47 <luk> personally I would postpone it
19:29:03 <Hydroxide> I'll go either way on postponing it, though I don't see a need.
19:29:06 <sam> luk: if the board doesn't vote now, we're left with licensing terms that are worse in almost all aspects; this might require changes but there's no reason not to vote now IMHO
19:29:11 <bdale> I've already stated that I'm prepared to vote on it.
19:29:16 <Maulkin> Voting started, 1 people ( fixing the debian open use logo license) allowed to vote on Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
19:29:20 <Maulkin> dammit.
19:29:23 <Maulkin> Current voting results for "Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1": Yes: 0, No: 0, Abstain: 0, Missing: 1 (  fixing the debian open use logo license )
19:29:26 <Maulkin> Voting for "Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1" closed.
19:29:29 <Hydroxide> haha
19:29:32 <Maulkin> Voting started, 9 people (cdlu,ganneff,schultmc,luk,maulkin,hydroxide,bdale,zobel,linuxpoet) allowed to vote on Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1 - Fixing the Debian Open Use Logo License. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
19:29:41 <linuxpoet> !vote abstain
19:29:44 <Hydroxide> !vote yes
19:29:45 <schultmc> !vote yes
19:29:47 <Maulkin> !vote yes
19:29:48 <cdlu> !vote yes
19:29:53 <Ganneff> !vote yes
19:29:54 <slef> * Maulkin assigns it 2008-03-19.jrk.2
19:29:57 <slef> ?
19:30:02 <bdale> !vote yes
19:30:04 <Maulkin> slef: ack, will adjust
19:30:09 <zobel> !vote yes
19:30:12 <luk> !vote abstain
19:30:18 <Maulkin> Current voting results for "Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1 - Fixing the Debian Open Use Logo License": Yes: 7, No: 0, Abstain: 2, Missing: 0 ()
19:30:21 <Maulkin> Voting for "Resolution 2008-03-19.jrk.1 - Fixing the Debian Open Use Logo License" closed.
19:30:24 <Maulkin> pass
19:30:32 <Hydroxide> cool. 
19:30:51 <Hydroxide> now sam and Maulkin can work on a press release as discussed in this channel outside of meeting time :)
19:31:03 <bdale> ok.  luk, I encourage you to continue this conversation with sam, et al.  I think this leaves us in a better situation than before, but if we need to adjust/improve in the future, I'll certainly be happy to entertain a new resolution at a future meeting.
19:31:19 <bdale> Do any board members have other items for discussion they would like to address briefly?
19:31:20 <luk> ok
19:31:25 <linuxpoet> none
19:31:30 <luk> none
19:31:31 <sam> bdale: that seems very reasonable to me, thanks
19:31:37 <bdale> sam: np
19:32:05 <bdale> [item 8, Next board meeting]
19:32:05 <bdale> Neil?  I believe our default would be Wednesday 16th Apr, 2008 - 19:00 UTC?
19:32:20 <Maulkin> Yup
19:32:27 <bdale> looks ok for me
19:32:31 <Hydroxide> note
19:32:31 <Hydroxide> that
19:32:37 <Hydroxide> it's DST/summer time in europe
19:32:39 <Hydroxide> starting in April
19:32:41 <Maulkin> The only possible issue is the change to summer time
19:32:42 <cdlu> works for me.
19:32:43 <linuxpoet> I might be speaking at MySQL Con
19:32:54 <linuxpoet> Its either the 16th or 17th, I will let you know
19:33:03 <bdale> linuxpoet: ok
19:33:06 <luk> I wouldn't oppose moving it to 18 UTC
19:33:24 * linuxpoet gets to stand up in front of dolphin lovers and proclaim what they can learn from Elephant herders
19:33:44 * Hydroxide is equally likely to be able to do 1800 UTC and 1900 UTC, and is therefore indifferent
19:33:58 <bdale> let's leave it 19:00 for next month, then?
19:33:58 <Ganneff> not 1800, thats bad
19:34:12 <bdale> I can do either, but 19:00 is better than 18:00 for me
19:34:12 * Maulkin suggests 19:00UTC
19:34:14 <luk> Ganneff: that would be the same as now?
19:34:18 <zobel> 1800 is bad for me as well.
19:34:18 <Ganneff> luk: yes. bad.
19:34:32 <luk> ok, why not 20 UTC then?
19:34:42 <bdale> 20:00 would work for me
19:34:50 <Maulkin> A little late for me.
19:35:02 <Ganneff> how about staying with what we have. 19utc?
19:35:04 <Maulkin> But can do if needed.
19:35:07 <Maulkin> 19:00 UTC :)
19:35:16 <bdale> ok, let's leave it 19:00 ... if someone really wants a change, bring it up on the board mailing list.
19:35:27 <luk> Ganneff: because it's bad :-)
19:35:35 <bdale> Ok, thank you to everyone present for participating today.  Enjoy the holidays!
19:35:35 <bdale> *GAVEL*

Hope that helps,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237