From nbs at sonic.net Wed Dec 7 17:23:40 2016 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:23:40 -0800 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? Message-ID: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> Hi all, I'm Bill, lead developer (in snooze mode ATM), website maintainer, and main 'support' contact for Tux Paint, the open source drawing program for young kids (http://www.tuxpaint.org/) In the past month or two, I've had at least two teachers, and one person from an "internet safety" company, ask about Tux Paint in regards to privacy, user-identifiable information, etc. (I don't think in the previous 12 years I had ever been asked; I guess some laws changed in the US this year?) As Tux Paint is a completely offline program, with no network capabilities at this time -- at least in the Desktop version (other Tux Paint devs, remind me: what do the Android and iOS versions do, if anything, online?) -- and as the tuxpaint.org website does not have any kind of user accounting (login, forums, cloud storage, etc.), this has never seemed necessary. [*] However, it seems that, at the very least, it'd be helpful for ME to have a "privacy policy" page on our site that I can direct teachers and school IT folks to, rather than have to reply individually each time... or worse yet, fill-out/sign/scan/email strange government forms that ask questions that are almost entirely moot. :) Does anyone out here have experience putting a privacy policy together, a link you can throw me to some 'best practices', or other relevant guidance? Thanks in advance! [*] There are these mailing lists, managed by SourceForge.net, the IRC channel, which lives on FreeNode, and the Facebook Group and Page, which live on Facebook -- and all of which I currently manage. They are outside the scope of Tux Paint itself, but I suppose on whatever 'privacy policy' page/document that I come up with, it'd make sense to (at the least) link to each service's relevant privacy policy page. Note: Sending this to tuxpaint's dev list, SchoolForge discussion list, and Software in the Public Interest's general discussion list. -- -bill! From josh at postgresql.org Wed Dec 7 18:27:37 2016 From: josh at postgresql.org (Josh berkus) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:27:37 -0800 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 12/07/2016 09:23 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > As Tux Paint is a completely offline program, with no network > capabilities at this time -- at least in the Desktop version > (other Tux Paint devs, remind me: what do the Android and iOS > versions do, if anything, online?) -- and as the tuxpaint.org > website does not have any kind of user accounting (login, forums, > cloud storage, etc.), this has never seemed necessary. [*] Then that's your privacy policy: "The Tux Paint website does not collect or store any user-identifying information. The Tux Paint program does not communicate any user information online." From jd at commandprompt.com Wed Dec 7 19:20:26 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 11:20:26 -0800 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 12/07/2016 10:27 AM, Josh berkus wrote: > On 12/07/2016 09:23 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: >> As Tux Paint is a completely offline program, with no network >> capabilities at this time -- at least in the Desktop version >> (other Tux Paint devs, remind me: what do the Android and iOS >> versions do, if anything, online?) -- and as the tuxpaint.org >> website does not have any kind of user accounting (login, forums, >> cloud storage, etc.), this has never seemed necessary. [*] > > Then that's your privacy policy: > > "The Tux Paint website does not collect or store any user-identifying > information. The Tux Paint program does not communicate any user > information online." Could probably be refined down to one sentence but other than that, this is spot on. JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From josh at postgresql.org Wed Dec 7 20:05:11 2016 From: josh at postgresql.org (Josh berkus) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:05:11 -0800 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9d0c6032-5e74-a2c1-2dc7-7461a97de193@postgresql.org> On 12/07/2016 10:27 AM, Josh berkus wrote: > On 12/07/2016 09:23 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: >> As Tux Paint is a completely offline program, with no network >> capabilities at this time -- at least in the Desktop version >> (other Tux Paint devs, remind me: what do the Android and iOS >> versions do, if anything, online?) -- and as the tuxpaint.org >> website does not have any kind of user accounting (login, forums, >> cloud storage, etc.), this has never seemed necessary. [*] > > Then that's your privacy policy: > > "The Tux Paint website does not collect or store any user-identifying > information. The Tux Paint program does not communicate any user > information online." BTW, I think the reason folks are asking is because K-12 staff are required to check privacy info for anything kids use. From arma at mit.edu Thu Dec 8 05:49:12 2016 From: arma at mit.edu (Roger Dingledine) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 00:49:12 -0500 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20161208054912.GK10158@moria.seul.org> On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 10:27:37AM -0800, Josh berkus wrote: > On 12/07/2016 09:23 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > > [...] the tuxpaint.org > > website does not have any kind of user accounting (login, forums, > > cloud storage, etc.) [...] > > Then that's your privacy policy: > > "The Tux Paint website does not collect or store any user-identifying > information. The Tux Paint program does not communicate any user > information online." Careful! Bill said the website doesn't require logins or the like, and Josh summarized that for him as the website does not collect any user-identifying information. If I read this privacy policy and then later learned that the tuxpaint website collects default apache logs, with IP address and user-agent and so on, I might be pretty upset. You might argue that IP addresses aren't user-identifying, and you'll find judges in the US who agree with you, but you'll find judges in Europe who do not agree. I guess you might also think "he said the website, not the webserver", but I hope we'd conclude that's still problematic. Rather than trying to craft language to explain webserver log risks, one solution would be to change the webserver config so it doesn't keep scary logs, and then stick with Josh's text. For example, on the Tor webservers we use a modified log format that writes 0.0.0.0 for requests that arrive over http and 0.0.0.1 for requests over https, and rounds down the timestamp to midnight. For example: 0.0.0.1 - - [04/Dec/2016:00:00:00 +0000] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 200 23 "-" "-" - The apache config line we use to generate it is: LogFormat "0.0.0.0 - %u %{[%d/%b/%Y:00:00:00 %z]}t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"-\" %{Age}o" privacy and then you use it with a line in your VirtualHost stanza like CustomLog /var/log/apache2/$name-access.log privacy For more motivation, see http://seclists.org/nmap-announce/2004/16 You might think tuxpaint doesn't need to provide this sort of security for its users -- and indeed I would hope that tuxpaint would be pretty far down the "first they came for" list -- but these are trying times we're living in, and you never know when things will change, so keeping your users safe by default is good practice. Hope this helps, --Roger From jfs at debian.org Thu Dec 8 08:36:20 2016 From: jfs at debian.org (Javier Fernandez-Sanguino) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 09:36:20 +0100 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: <20161208054912.GK10158@moria.seul.org> References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> <20161208054912.GK10158@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: On 8 December 2016 at 06:49, Roger Dingledine wrote: > Careful! Bill said the website doesn't require logins or the like, > and Josh summarized that for him as the website does not collect any > user-identifying information. If I read this privacy policy and then > later learned that the tuxpaint website collects default apache logs, > with IP address and user-agent and so on, I might be pretty upset. > Agreed. > You might argue that IP addresses aren't user-identifying, and you'll > find judges in the US who agree with you, but you'll find judges in > Europe who do not agree. > I thought I might chime in and give an "Europe" perspective which might, or might not, apply to TuxPaint. Since TuxPaint (the service) is provided from the US this might or might not apply, but maybe the information I provide here is useful. Please bear with me and keep in mind that IANAL :) *European Data Protection directive* In Europe, the data protection directive, which entered in force this year but will not be fully applicable until 2018 [1] defines personal data as: ?personal data? means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (?data subject?); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person; Note: This definition is already existing in the data protection directives (in different countries) that this directive will replace. *Is an IP address personal data?* The most important part of the definition is that it data can "identify or be used to identify" somebody. A license plate of car, for example, is considered personal data in most cases (unless it is a company car). Also a telephone number (because there is a contract signed by somebody that "ties" to that number). Following that thread, an IP address has been considered personal data by Data Protection Agencies in the past. For example, see this note [3] (in Spanish only sorry) from the Spanish Data Protection Agency which states than an IP address *is* personal data because in many cases it can be used to identify persons. Note that the possibility of identifying a person does not have to stay in the hands of the one holding the data itself. You could argue that: "hey, I have an IP address in a log but there is no way that I can determine who is it". That is not relevant, the definition does not say that the service provider can use it to tie it to somebody, an IP address is personal data because somebody (i.e. the Internet Service Provider) can use that data to make you identificable. I do not want to start a debate on whether an IP address is or not personal data, I just want to highlight that a lawyer and a judge might consider it personal data and, consequently, somebody could pursue a service provider on the basis of it holding this information. *Privacy Policy for Tuxpaint* Consequently, for Tux Paint's website I would suggest to describe in the privacy policy what technical information is stored (if any) as a consequence of website use. In addition, you have also to consider TuxPaint as a "service provider" and define a privacy policy that takes into consideration some other aspects of the project. Not just the website, maybe also the mailing lists and other means of contacting the project (i.e. email). I would suggest googling a little bit for "privacy policy" in different projects/websites and looking into how others have defined their website's privacy policies. I have done this (5 minutes, not much) and looked at some privacy policies of websites of some EU sites. Maybe something along this lines could be useful (or not): PRIVACY POLICY We respect the privacy of internet users and visitors to our website. As a matter of principle, we do not collect, store or exploit personally identifiable information of its visitors, unless the storage is for the processing of necessary direct assignments or enquiries, and explicit consent for utilisation and storage exists. Enquiries that reach us through the voluntary stating of name, address and/or e-mail are deemed to be approval of the storage of the data. On no account will personally identifiable information be made available to a third party. [INSERT Contact information from New Breed Software, For example the following: NewBreed Software 1335 Alder Place, Davis (California) US 95618 info at newbreedsoftware.com ] Cookies Our website does not make use of so-called cookies in order to recognize repeat use of our website by the same user/internet connection subscriber. Server data For technical reasons, data such as the following, which your internet browser transmits to us or to our web space provider (so called server log files), is collected: ? type and version of the browser you use ? operating system ? websites that linked you to our site (referrer URL) ? websites that you visit ? date and time of your visit ? your Internet Protocol (IP) address. This anonymous data is stored separately from any personal information you may have provided, thereby making it impossible to connect it to any particular person. The data is used for statistical purposes in order to improve our website and services. MAILING LIST Our website offers you the opportunity to subscribe to our mailing list. The mailing list provides you periodically with information about TuxPaint. To receive our newsletter, we require a valid email address. We will review the email address you provide for the purpose of determining whether you are in fact the owner of the email address provided or whether the actual owner of said address is authorized to receive the newsletter. When subscribing to our mailing list, we will store your IP address as well as the date and time you subscribed. This serves to protect us in the event a third party improperly and without your knowledge makes use of your email address to subscribe to our newsletter. We will not collect any other data. The data thereby collected is used solely for the purpose of receiving our mailing list. No data is transferred to third parties. Nor is any of this information matched to any information that other components of our website may collect. You may cancel your subscription to the mailing lists at any time. You will find additional details in the email confirming your subscription as well as in each mailing list. Contacting Us On our website we offer you the opportunity to contact us, either by email and/or by using a contact form. In such event, information provided by the user is stored for the purpose of facilitating communications with the user. No data is transferred to third parties. Nor is any of this information matched to any information that may be collected by other components of our website. Information/Cancellation/Deletion On the basis of the European Data Protection Rules (Regulation (EU) 2016/679 / Directive (EU) 2016/680), and the Data Protection laws of the different EU countries, you may contact us at no cost if you have questions relating to the collection, processing or use of your personal information, if you wish to request the correction, blocking or deletion of the same, or if you wish to cancel explicitly granted consent. Please note that you have the right to have incorrect data corrected or to have personal data deleted, where such claim is not barred by any legal obligation to retain this data. Note: - Of course, this should be adapted to TuxPaint a little bit better. - Even if the website is configured to not store IP address I would still highlight the possibility to store that information. I guess you might also think "he said the website, not the webserver", > but I hope we'd conclude that's still problematic. > For non-IT guys, its the same thing. The regulation does not talk about technical components, EU regulation talks about "service providers". Those are the ones that are responsible for managing properly personal data and it includes all their services, not just the website itself. I hope the above is useful food for thought. Best regards Javier [1] http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/reform/index_en.htm [2] http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/reform/files/regulation_oj_en.pdf - Article 4 [3] https://www.agpd.es/portalwebAGPD/canaldocumentacion/informes_juridicos/otras_cuestiones/common/pdfs/2003-0327_Car-aa-cter-de-dato-personal-de-la-direcci-oo-n-IP.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk Sun Dec 11 11:51:06 2016 From: ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 11:51:06 +0000 Subject: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas? In-Reply-To: References: <20161207172340.GE9437@sonic.net> <20161208054912.GK10158@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: <22605.15786.445312.775055@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Javier Fernandez-Sanguino writes ("Re: Privacy policy for Tux Paint; ideas?"): ... > PRIVACY POLICY .. > This anonymous data is stored separately from any personal information you > may have provided, thereby making it impossible to connect it to any > particular person. The data is used for statistical purposes in order to > improve our website and services. ... and for troubleshooting. > MAILING LIST > > Our website offers you the opportunity to subscribe to our mailing list. I assume there is a development list too, which is public. This seems to be omitted. What is further lacking is a statement that the Tux Paint program does not record any tracking information about its users. I assume it doesn't. If it has a "track changes" feature then this isn't true. But a paint program intended for use by children probably shouldn't have a "track changes" feature! Ian. -- Ian Jackson These opinions are my own. If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter. From jd at commandprompt.com Thu Dec 15 18:46:10 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:46:10 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Board, > > On October 6th, I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org requested that 5k USD be > transferred to PgUS for their Diversity Scholarships. > > On October 14th, the bank info for ACH was delivered to the Treasurer. > > On November 7th, the Treasurer of PgUS requested a status update on when > the transfer would be made. > > On December 9th, the Treasurer brought to my attention that this > transfer has still not been made > > I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit overkill > isn't it? It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. Sincerely, JD > > Sincerely, > > JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From hlapp at drycafe.net Thu Dec 15 19:58:09 2016 From: hlapp at drycafe.net (Hilmar Lapp) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:58:09 -0500 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: Seconded. I think we?re all in the same boat here, and I?ll go out on a limb here and say that we all collectively know that what Joshua reported is by no means an isolated incident but a pattern that has been festering. Plus, we are probably all agreed that of all functions SPI carries out on behalf of its associated projects, disbursing the funds earmarked for them in a timely and low-overhead manner is the single most important one. It is the one that _has_ to work, or SPI isn?t a functioning fiscal sponsor in any sense of what that means. I myself have had to follow up on almost every treasurer ticket, sometimes multiple times. I now keep a copy of every ticket receipt and create myself a reminder on my todo list 3 weeks into the future, rather than just considering the reimbursement done when I hit send on the initial request. I can do that, and my expenses needing reimbursement aren?t large enough to not allow several months delay. But it does make evident a very poor professional reliability of SPI as a fiscal sponsor that disburses project-earmarked funds. -hilmar > On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> Board, >> >> On October 6th, I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org requested that 5k USD be >> transferred to PgUS for their Diversity Scholarships. >> >> On October 14th, the bank info for ACH was delivered to the Treasurer. >> >> On November 7th, the Treasurer of PgUS requested a status update on when >> the transfer would be made. >> >> On December 9th, the Treasurer brought to my attention that this >> transfer has still not been made >> >> I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit overkill >> isn't it? > > It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. > > Sincerely, > > JD > > >> >> Sincerely, >> >> JD > > > -- > Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ > +1-503-667-4564 > PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. > Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. > Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. > _______________________________________________ > Spi-general mailing list > Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general -- Hilmar Lapp -:- lappland.io From josh at postgresql.org Thu Dec 15 20:00:40 2016 From: josh at postgresql.org (Josh berkus) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:00:40 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <56f0f1a6-3d00-2e0b-f0c1-a3233bb6415a@postgresql.org> On 12/15/2016 11:58 AM, Hilmar Lapp wrote: > Seconded. I think we?re all in the same boat here, and I?ll go out on a limb here and say that we all collectively know that what Joshua reported is by no means an isolated incident but a pattern that has been festering. Plus, we are probably all agreed that of all functions SPI carries out on behalf of its associated projects, disbursing the funds earmarked for them in a timely and low-overhead manner is the single most important one. It is the one that _has_ to work, or SPI isn?t a functioning fiscal sponsor in any sense of what that means. > > I myself have had to follow up on almost every treasurer ticket, sometimes multiple times. I now keep a copy of every ticket receipt and create myself a reminder on my todo list 3 weeks into the future, rather than just considering the reimbursement done when I hit send on the initial request. I can do that, and my expenses needing reimbursement aren?t large enough to not allow several months delay. But it does make evident a very poor professional reliability of SPI as a fiscal sponsor that disburses project-earmarked funds. While we have plans to get better software, that's a minority of the problem. We could really use paid staff for the routine paperwork. Relying entirely on a volunteer treasurer doesn't scale to the size SPI is now. --Josh From matt at mahrens.org Thu Dec 15 22:26:42 2016 From: matt at mahrens.org (Matthew Ahrens) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:26:42 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: +1 for solving this problem. --matt On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Hilmar Lapp wrote: > Seconded. I think we?re all in the same boat here, and I?ll go out on a > limb here and say that we all collectively know that what Joshua reported > is by no means an isolated incident but a pattern that has been festering. > Plus, we are probably all agreed that of all functions SPI carries out on > behalf of its associated projects, disbursing the funds earmarked for them > in a timely and low-overhead manner is the single most important one. It is > the one that _has_ to work, or SPI isn?t a functioning fiscal sponsor in > any sense of what that means. > > I myself have had to follow up on almost every treasurer ticket, sometimes > multiple times. I now keep a copy of every ticket receipt and create myself > a reminder on my todo list 3 weeks into the future, rather than just > considering the reimbursement done when I hit send on the initial request. > I can do that, and my expenses needing reimbursement aren?t large enough to > not allow several months delay. But it does make evident a very poor > professional reliability of SPI as a fiscal sponsor that disburses > project-earmarked funds. > > -hilmar > > > On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > > > > On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> Board, > >> > >> On October 6th, I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org requested that 5k USD be > >> transferred to PgUS for their Diversity Scholarships. > >> > >> On October 14th, the bank info for ACH was delivered to the Treasurer. > >> > >> On November 7th, the Treasurer of PgUS requested a status update on when > >> the transfer would be made. > >> > >> On December 9th, the Treasurer brought to my attention that this > >> transfer has still not been made > >> > >> I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit overkill > >> isn't it? > > > > It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero > correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the > board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > JD > > > > > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> JD > > > > > > -- > > Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ > > +1-503-667-4564 > > PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. > > Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. > > Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. > > _______________________________________________ > > Spi-general mailing list > > Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org > > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general > > -- > Hilmar Lapp -:- lappland.io > > > > _______________________________________________ > Spi-general mailing list > Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jd at commandprompt.com Thu Dec 15 23:11:34 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:11:34 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <224edf31-c2a9-056d-c1d4-0cf1a4fb36ee@commandprompt.com> On 12/15/2016 02:29 PM, Philip Balister wrote: > Everyone wants a solution. Is there anything we can do to help resolve > the issue? A big help I think would be to use modern infrastructure. Up until recently SPI used a spreadsheet to manage finances. We are now using Ledger. We could empower a Treasurer's committee of the board (TCB) that has the power to perform reimbursements. We could have an application that allows Reimbursements and the required documents to be uploaded and stored in a queue for processing by the TCB. * This could be configured similar to RT but instead of a single queue, have a queue per project. * Perhaps sign a member of each the TCB to a group of projects and it is their responsibility? We could use modern infrastructure for payments. * Paypal * Google Wallet * Venmo * Xoom * USForex Even if we don't have the TCB have authority over payments. We could have the TCB be in charge of all pre-auth. In short, before the transaction gets to the Treasurer, the TCB makes sure that the Treasurer has *everything* they need to just make the payment. The short (not easy) route would be to hire staff but: * We need someone to manage that staff (not impressed with that idea with the current board performance *on this specific topic*) * Find someone who is willing to interface with Ledger. If I was a professional book keeper I would laugh my way out of the room if you told me that was what I was going to be using. Here is the short and blunt skinny for me. Command Prompt is a 7 figure company. We process hundreds of invoices a month. We process multiple dozens of payments. We process multiple full accounting including payroll, bank rec, collections etc... We have dozens of vendors and hundreds of customers. We do that with *one*, *part-time*, *accountant*. How? Modern and collaborative infrastructure. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. From philip at balister.org Thu Dec 15 22:29:16 2016 From: philip at balister.org (Philip Balister) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:29:16 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: Everyone wants a solution. Is there anything we can do to help resolve the issue? Philip On 12/15/2016 02:26 PM, Matthew Ahrens wrote: > +1 for solving this problem. > > --matt > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Hilmar Lapp wrote: > >> Seconded. I think we?re all in the same boat here, and I?ll go out on a >> limb here and say that we all collectively know that what Joshua reported >> is by no means an isolated incident but a pattern that has been festering. >> Plus, we are probably all agreed that of all functions SPI carries out on >> behalf of its associated projects, disbursing the funds earmarked for them >> in a timely and low-overhead manner is the single most important one. It is >> the one that _has_ to work, or SPI isn?t a functioning fiscal sponsor in >> any sense of what that means. >> >> I myself have had to follow up on almost every treasurer ticket, sometimes >> multiple times. I now keep a copy of every ticket receipt and create myself >> a reminder on my todo list 3 weeks into the future, rather than just >> considering the reimbursement done when I hit send on the initial request. >> I can do that, and my expenses needing reimbursement aren?t large enough to >> not allow several months delay. But it does make evident a very poor >> professional reliability of SPI as a fiscal sponsor that disburses >> project-earmarked funds. >> >> -hilmar >> >>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Joshua D. Drake >> wrote: >>> >>> On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>>> Board, >>>> >>>> On October 6th, I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org requested that 5k USD be >>>> transferred to PgUS for their Diversity Scholarships. >>>> >>>> On October 14th, the bank info for ACH was delivered to the Treasurer. >>>> >>>> On November 7th, the Treasurer of PgUS requested a status update on when >>>> the transfer would be made. >>>> >>>> On December 9th, the Treasurer brought to my attention that this >>>> transfer has still not been made >>>> >>>> I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit overkill >>>> isn't it? >>> >>> It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero >> correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the >> board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> JD >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> JD >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ >>> +1-503-667-4564 >>> PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. >>> Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. >>> Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Spi-general mailing list >>> Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org >>> http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general >> >> -- >> Hilmar Lapp -:- lappland.io >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Spi-general mailing list >> Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org >> http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Spi-private mailing list > Spi-private at lists.spi-inc.org > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-private > Unsubscribe using https://members.spi-inc.org/ > From rmackay9 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 15 23:06:27 2016 From: rmackay9 at yahoo.com (Randy Mackay) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 08:06:27 +0900 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <005301d25727$de4b17d0$9ae14770$@yahoo.com> I think the issue is that the treasurer isn't able to dedicate the time to do all the admin required (and maybe it's a lot of admin). It's a volunteer position and we are all busy so that leads to him/her making a prioritisation choice and it likely always gets pushed to the bottom. I think Josh has hit the nail on the head that it should be a funded opinion. It doesn't need to be a full time job necessarily. Maybe during the next set of elections, the candidates should make it clear how much time they can dedicate to the position. If one candidate says he/she does have the time and the other doesn't then that should play heavily into the voters choice. Just to make it clear that I have a stake in this, ArduPilot lost a $1k partnership donation because I couldn't get an answer from the treasurer on how to do a wire transfer. I don't believe I ever got an answer to that question actually. I'm a bit new here so sorry if I'm stepping on toes by voicing my opinion. I'm sure the people involved are not negligent, probably just overworked. -Randy -----Original Message----- From: spi-private-bounces+rmackay9=yahoo.com at lists.spi-inc.org [mailto:spi-private-bounces+rmackay9=yahoo.com at lists.spi-inc.org] On Behalf Of Philip Balister Sent: December 16, 2016 7:29 AM To: Matthew Ahrens ; Hilmar Lapp Cc: SPI Treasurer ; SPI Private List ; spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org Subject: Re: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer Everyone wants a solution. Is there anything we can do to help resolve the issue? Philip On 12/15/2016 02:26 PM, Matthew Ahrens wrote: > +1 for solving this problem. > > --matt > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Hilmar Lapp wrote: > >> Seconded. I think we're all in the same boat here, and I'll go out on >> a limb here and say that we all collectively know that what Joshua >> reported is by no means an isolated incident but a pattern that has been festering. >> Plus, we are probably all agreed that of all functions SPI carries >> out on behalf of its associated projects, disbursing the funds >> earmarked for them in a timely and low-overhead manner is the single >> most important one. It is the one that _has_ to work, or SPI isn't a >> functioning fiscal sponsor in any sense of what that means. >> >> I myself have had to follow up on almost every treasurer ticket, >> sometimes multiple times. I now keep a copy of every ticket receipt >> and create myself a reminder on my todo list 3 weeks into the future, >> rather than just considering the reimbursement done when I hit send on the initial request. >> I can do that, and my expenses needing reimbursement aren't large >> enough to not allow several months delay. But it does make evident a >> very poor professional reliability of SPI as a fiscal sponsor that >> disburses project-earmarked funds. >> >> -hilmar >> >>> On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Joshua D. Drake >> wrote: >>> >>> On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>>> Board, >>>> >>>> On October 6th, I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org requested that 5k >>>> USD be transferred to PgUS for their Diversity Scholarships. >>>> >>>> On October 14th, the bank info for ACH was delivered to the Treasurer. >>>> >>>> On November 7th, the Treasurer of PgUS requested a status update on >>>> when the transfer would be made. >>>> >>>> On December 9th, the Treasurer brought to my attention that this >>>> transfer has still not been made >>>> >>>> I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit >>>> overkill isn't it? >>> >>> It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero >> correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum >> the board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> JD >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> JD >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ >>> +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full >>> stack support, consulting and development. >>> Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. >>> Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Spi-general mailing list >>> Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org >>> http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general >> >> -- >> Hilmar Lapp -:- lappland.io >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Spi-general mailing list >> Spi-general at lists.spi-inc.org >> http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Spi-private mailing list > Spi-private at lists.spi-inc.org > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-private > Unsubscribe using https://members.spi-inc.org/ > _______________________________________________ Spi-private mailing list Spi-private at lists.spi-inc.org http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-private Unsubscribe using https://members.spi-inc.org/ From jd at commandprompt.com Tue Dec 20 17:47:52 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 09:47:52 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: On 12/15/2016 10:46 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 12/09/2016 04:34 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> I understand that we are all volunteers but this delay is a bit overkill >> isn't it? > > It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero > correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the > board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. It is now the 20th and we still have zero response from the board. This is a unnerving. I am trying to be reasonable but as others have pointed out, the board's performance in this manner is unacceptable. It isn't just angry-JD making noise here. Sincerely, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk Tue Dec 20 18:14:54 2016 From: ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:14:54 +0000 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <22617.29982.779319.829245@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Joshua D. Drake writes ("Re: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer"): > On 12/15/2016 10:46 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > It is now the 15th and I as Liaison of PostgreSQL.Org have had zero > > correspondence in regards to this issue. I request that at a minimum the > > board respond, preferably the Treasurer with an ETA of resolution. > > It is now the 20th and we still have zero response from the board. This > is a unnerving. I am trying to be reasonable but as others have pointed > out, the board's performance in this manner is unacceptable. It isn't > just angry-JD making noise here. Would every board member please reply to this thread, explaining what steps should be taken (both immediately, and in the medium and long term) to remedy the situation. An emergency board meeting, and a determination to take positive action, rather than simply making further enquiries, would seem to be the minimum starting point. Ian. -- Ian Jackson These opinions are my own. If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter. From tbm at cyrius.com Tue Dec 20 20:50:35 2016 From: tbm at cyrius.com (Martin Michlmayr) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 12:50:35 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: <22617.29982.779319.829245@chiark.greenend.org.uk> References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> <22617.29982.779319.829245@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Message-ID: <20161220205035.GA8805@jirafa.cyrius.com> * Ian Jackson [2016-12-20 18:14]: > Would every board member please reply to this thread, explaining > what steps should be taken (both immediately, and in the medium and > long term) to remedy the situation. I think we all agree that SPI's handling of reimbursements needs to be improved and that this is the top priority given that this is what SPI's associated projects rely on most. I cannot speak about the specific issue Joshua raised and hope Michael will comment. I can speak about the situation in general, though. While there are clearly problems that need to be fixed, what people on this thread don't realize is that major improvements are being made. Over the last six months or so, there has been a lot of progress in moving away from a spreadsheet that only Michael understands to a ledger-based system to which several board members actively contribute. I'd like to thank Michael, Martin, Dimitri, Tridge and others who have worked on this. I know there have been several calls to "just hire paid help", and while I agree that this might be a good solution long-term, "just" going out and hiring something isn't something you can do. We need to understand the current system, where the bottlenecks are, how we're going to manage the contractor, etc, before we can implement a solution. SPI has had some paid help in the past and it didn't work well, so we have to make sure a contractor can be effective before we get one. Again, progress is being made in these areas, but I am aware this is not very visible. Furthermore, SPI donated some money to Software Freedom Conservancy to help with the creation of tools that will make reimbursements easier. While there hasn't been a lot of progress until recently, Conservancy hired someone a few months ago so we're also expecting to see progress in that area. We'll have another face-to-face board meeting in February and these topics (reimbursements, treasurer reports, getting paid admin help) are a big item on the agenda. Martin President, Software in the Public Interest, Inc. From jd at commandprompt.com Tue Dec 20 22:56:26 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:56:26 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: <20161220205035.GA8805@jirafa.cyrius.com> References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> <22617.29982.779319.829245@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <20161220205035.GA8805@jirafa.cyrius.com> Message-ID: On 12/20/2016 12:50 PM, Martin Michlmayr wrote: > We'll have another face-to-face board meeting in February and these > topics (reimbursements, treasurer reports, getting paid admin help) > are a big item on the agenda. > Martin, This is all great but what will you do for PostgreSQL, *now*? As PostgreSQL Liaison, I don't care about the operational issues that should have already been solved. I care about the project I am responsible for and the fact that the NPO PostgreSQL is working with is not providing the most basic of services that we require. I as a voting member, and as a Liaison am asking for direct intervention by the President to get the problem *FIXED*, *NOW*. I am not asking for a solution (that can come later). I don't care if you use a pigeon to transfer the money. I care that the money hasn't been transferred in a timely manner and that communication has been non-existent after repeated attempts. SPI has been negligent on this issue since October 14th 2016. That is 67 days. Sincerely, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From bkuhn at ebb.org Wed Dec 21 01:29:32 2016 From: bkuhn at ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:29:32 -0800 Subject: Very long wait for funds transfer In-Reply-To: <20161220205035.GA8805@jirafa.cyrius.com> (Martin Michlmayr's message of "Tue, 20 Dec 2016 12:50:35 -0800") References: <57ad7c49-38e7-22d9-3eb1-37c7d115a663@commandprompt.com> <22617.29982.779319.829245@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <20161220205035.GA8805@jirafa.cyrius.com> Message-ID: <87pokmqdc3.fsf_-_@ebb.org> I'm an SPI member since 2002, but most of the email below is about how my work at my day job relates to SPI. I've tried not to conflate the too roles too much. Martin Michlmayr wrote: > Furthermore, SPI donated some money to Software Freedom Conservancy to > help with the creation of tools that will make reimbursements easier. > While there hasn't been a lot of progress until recently, Conservancy > hired someone a few months ago so we're also expecting to see progress in > that area. Indeed, to "name names" -- specifically both Brett Smith and I at Conservancy are heavily focused on the huge problem of how to run a fiscal sponsor with Open Source and Free Software. It's harder than it looks. And, Martin's point about paid bookkeeping staff failing is no surprise at all: > SPI has had some paid help in the past and it didn't work well, If you hire a "bookkeeper off the street", they won't understand fiscal sponsorship. They won't have the software [0] they need to properly cross-categorize expenses against account and temporarily restricted funds simultaneously. Plus, most bookkeepers that you can hire part-time at a reasonable contract rate don't know a thing about keeping books for a charity and how it differs from for-profit. Even *if* you hire charity-specialist bookkeepers (who are rare), they are not likely familiar with fiscal sponsorship, and they *certainly* won't know how to communicate with geeks seeking reimbursements who, say, are going to be annoyed at things like top-reply, Word document attachments, and the like. Conservancy is younger than SPI but we grew faster (we're about to enter our FY 2015 audit cycle and we're looking at having in excess $1.6mil in assets managed for projects during the FY under audit). Thus, we already hit these growing pains problems a few years ago and have focused on solving them in the last few years [1]. We've made progress, but there's much work left to do for both organizations. SPI and Conservancy are natural allies on this matter because, on the fiscal sponsorship vector, we both have almost exactly the same needs, similar user/constituent bases, and a shared ethos -- e.g., neither org is going to run out to buy a Windows box and a Raiser's Edge or Abila [0] license. I understand people's frustrations with late payments, but I encourage everyone to be realistic. At Conservancy, I'm the primary person handling all outgoing payments. I pride myself on delivering Conservancy payments on NET-30 terms, and do rarely drift to NET-45 in busy months, but I keep on schedule because when reimbursement request load is heavy (e.g., after a conference), I drop everything else in my work (*and* my personal life) and turn my attention solely to reimbursements. I can only do that because Conservancy is my full-time job. Yet, I still get regular complaints -- much like the ones in this thread -- that Conservancy is not responsive enough, etc. After years of doing this, my take is simply this: people waiting for money from you who are unsure on precisely when it'll arrive [2] won't be happy unless you're completely perfect, and of course no on one on earth is. So, both organizations and reimbursement requestors should be realistic about expectations. Conservancy and SPI are kindred spirits, and, in fact, at Conservancy, SPI has been on our minds for at least three years now regarding this problem. Any solutions that we implement for Conservancy must create a rising tide that raises SPI, too. tbm, zobel, and others have worked with me to study what I do with Ledger CLI that allows me keep Conservancy's books as hyper-efficiently as possible. SPI's leadership have done a good job implementing those solutions that are working at Conservancy -- particularly given that SPI folks are all volunteers. As we build more bookkeeping solutions at Conservancy, Brett and I see SPI as our key and first "not us" user base. If we build something that Conservancy can use that SPI can't, I consider it a major failure because SPI and Conservancy are so much alike on the fiscal-sponsorship vector that a solution that doesn't help both orgs is by-default broken. Finally, speaking from my experience helping run a Free Software fiscal sponsor for a very long time (for about 3/4ths of which I was paid and about a 1/4th of which I wasn't) -- I'm in *awe* that SPI is still going as well as it is without staff. Even though the delays are annoying, we should be thankful to the volunteers who are doing what I know first-hand to be a truly thankless job. In particular, I think it's unfair that some in this thread accused SPI's leadership of treating their work only as only a hobby project [3] -- with the (IMO incorrect) implication being that SPI's leadership are failing to carry out their work in a highly professional (albeit volunteer) manner. By contrast, I think they've been *very* professional about this work, but are time and resource constrained. It's tough to bootstrap a non-profit charity, particularly a fiscal sponsor. Conservancy could have *easily* ended up where SPI is now: an essential organization that appears to the untrained eye as merely a volunteer initiative between a few friends -- due to constant lack of resources to expand to meet community needs. For Conservancy, it was basically only sheer force of will (mixed with some lucky breaks) that I bootstrapped Conservancy into a funded organization, now with four staffers -- including someone else other than me in charge. It's easily said -- but *not* easily done -- to convert a volunteer-only charity into a staffed one when its community needs grow, and merely "hiring a part-time person to handle the urgent stuff" rarely works, as tbm pointed out. Those us who have spent our careers working for and with non-profits have seen that almost every non-profit has struggled in this way in its history. Non-profit leadership needs to see these challenges plainly and take them on, which I think the SPI's current leadership is doing. The road through won't always be smooth, but SPI seems to be moving in the right direction to me, and I hope to help, both as part of my day job and as a volunteer, in the next year to come. [0] Brett and I both have, at different times separated by years, done careful analysis of what software is available to do fiscal sponsorship bookkeeping. There are basically only three proprietary packages that handle fiscal sponsorship: Fund-EZ, Rasier's Edge, and Abila. I even went so far as to go to an Abila demo/marketing day -- which was useful if only to see that other than a weak-forms-based Windows GUI, Abila's functionality is not more featureful, and is in some ways less feature-ful, than Conservancy's Ledger-CLI-based home-grown system. (Abila's system has no way to record and hold reimbursement payments while awaiting specific approvals, for example). The Open Source solutions are in a worse state, because not *one* is designed to handle books for a charity, and most of the codebases are baroque messes of features that you need to hire a consultant just to deploy them. Of course, they all tell that you can handle fiscal sponsorship easily if you "just use Cost Centers!" -- as if the round peg of temporarily restricted assets smoothly fits that particular square hole.... I could go on, but the npo-accounting mailing list is probably a better venue for such discussions: https://lists.sfconservancy.org/mailman/listinfo/npo-accounting [1] My political opponents love to talk about how I'm sitting around all day hatching new ways to enforce the GPL, but frankly the majority of my time in the last 5 years has spend on *this* problem of scaling fiscal sponsorship with software solutions. [2] I live on the other side of this, too. Speaking as someone who hasn't even submitted my DebConf reimbursement to SPI yet, I'm actually glad that SPI doesn't follow Conservancy's rules fully, as Conservancy wouldn't be so forgiving at my late submission (Conservancy has a strict must-submit-90-days-after-travel rule). I admit hearing that early submitters hadn't gotten reimbursed yet for DebConf made me feel like "eh, what's the point in doing it sooner rather than later?". Then, having worked for so long on the other side, I know that late reimbursements end up being even more work than timely ones for various bookkeeping reasons, which makes me feel shameful and guilty for not submitting my SPI request sooner -- and thus I keep avoiding the 20 minutes of work of putting together my reimbursement request. I face these types of scenarios every day in my day job, yet even I can fall into the vicious cycle -- such is very difficult to avoid here. We'll need to work together and cooperate to avoid it. [3] Although I think SPI, like Linux, should be proud of its roots as starting primarily as a hobby project. The best projects we have in Free Software were hobby projects that people took seriously and gave to them lots of professional volunteer time, and they make strong projects because they have both a hobbyist and professional culture together. -- -- bkuhn ======================================================================== Become a Conservancy Supporter today: https://sfconservancy.org/supporter From jd at commandprompt.com Wed Dec 28 16:02:28 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 08:02:28 -0800 Subject: Do we know the status of our officers? Message-ID: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> Folks, Has anyone heard from our Treasurer? In the other thread I started about on "Very long way for funds transfer", I noted the lack of communication from the board on the issue. Our President responded after the thread has been continuing for 5 days (11/20) but no resolution to that thread ever occurred. I am concerned for another reason. I sit in the #spi channel 24x7 and of course for reference purposes, I log that channel. I will grant that my logs may not be 100% (due to random disconnects etc..) but from what I can tell our Treasurer hasn't been heard from in some time. The last communication I have from him in channel (outside of standard connects/disconnects) was from November 15th 2016. """ #spi.chat/2016-11-15.103004-0800PST.html:(07:23:37 AM) zobel: schultmc: no, i did directly. i handed the new invoice directly to feivel
#spi.chat/2016-11-15.103004-0800PST.html:(11:43:32 AM) schultmc: zobel: ok, thank you
""" That was some time ago and would explain why we haven't seen any funds transfers. Does anyone know anything? Can we get some communication on this matter? Sincerely, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From tbm at cyrius.com Wed Dec 28 17:59:29 2016 From: tbm at cyrius.com (Martin Michlmayr) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 09:59:29 -0800 Subject: Do we know the status of our officers? In-Reply-To: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> References: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <20161228175929.GA29576@jirafa.cyrius.com> * Joshua D. Drake [2016-12-28 08:02]: > Does anyone know anything? Can we get some communication on this > matter? Thanks for your concerns about Michael's well-being. I just exchanged a text message with him and he's alright but offline due to a family vacation. I haven't spoken to Valerie (our secretary) for a few days but it seems she's about 2 days idle on IRC. And I am checking email several times per day but not at my normal level of activity either. I recently received a form we have to fill out to get a quote for D&O insurance and I'm slowly working on answering the questions. We have been accepted as a member of NPCC recently. I realize you've been very patient but given the holidays I fear you'll have to wait until next week to get a response. We have a board meeting on January 9 so you'll get a response by then the latest. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ From jd at commandprompt.com Wed Dec 28 18:51:57 2016 From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:51:57 -0800 Subject: Do we know the status of our officers? In-Reply-To: <20161228175929.GA29576@jirafa.cyrius.com> References: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> <20161228175929.GA29576@jirafa.cyrius.com> Message-ID: <7896d6ed-92b4-ac76-a279-455820f8b55b@commandprompt.com> On 12/28/2016 09:59 AM, Martin Michlmayr wrote: > * Joshua D. Drake [2016-12-28 08:02]: >> Does anyone know anything? Can we get some communication on this >> matter? > > Thanks for your concerns about Michael's well-being. I just exchanged > a text message with him and he's alright but offline due to a family > vacation. > > > I realize you've been very patient but given the holidays I fear > you'll have to wait until next week to get a response. We have a > board meeting on January 9 so you'll get a response by then the latest. > Thank you. JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. From bkerensa at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 28 21:05:12 2016 From: bkerensa at ubuntu.com (Benjamin Kerensa) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 13:05:12 -0800 Subject: [Spi-private] Do we know the status of our officers? In-Reply-To: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> References: <9d69f9f2-52a4-9e72-fed5-030e1651435b@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: As a project contact I emailed the treasurer a couple months back and have yet to get any response. =/ On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Folks, > > Has anyone heard from our Treasurer? In the other thread I started about > on "Very long way for funds transfer", I noted the lack of communication > from the board on the issue. Our President responded after the thread has > been continuing for 5 days (11/20) but no resolution to that thread ever > occurred. > > I am concerned for another reason. I sit in the #spi channel 24x7 and of > course for reference purposes, I log that channel. I will grant that my > logs may not be 100% (due to random disconnects etc..) but from what I can > tell our Treasurer hasn't been heard from in some time. > > The last communication I have from him in channel (outside of standard > connects/disconnects) was from November 15th 2016. > > """ > #spi.chat/2016-11-15.103004-0800PST.html: size="2">(07:23:37 AM) zobel: schultmc: no, i did > directly. i handed the new invoice directly to feivel
> #spi.chat/2016-11-15.103004-0800PST.html: size="2">(11:43:32 AM) schultmc: zobel: ok, thank > you
> """ > > That was some time ago and would explain why we haven't seen any funds > transfers. Does anyone know anything? Can we get some communication on this > matter? > > Sincerely, > > JD > > > -- > Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ > +1-503-667-4564 > PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. > Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. > Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. > _______________________________________________ > Spi-private mailing list > Spi-private at lists.spi-inc.org > http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-private > Unsubscribe using https://members.spi-inc.org/ > -- *Benjamin Kerensa* *http://benjaminkerensa.com * *"I am what I am because of who we all are" - Ubuntu* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: