<html><head></head><body>I would charge 5% going forward, and make no changes (refunds or new charges) for what happened in the past.<br><br>Bdale<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On June 13, 2020 11:09:52 AM MDT, Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@spi-inc.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Hi,<br><br>Per other branch on this thread, Stephen outlined that the Board is<br>working with the Debian Representative on clarifying the status of<br>DebConf sponsorships, etc.<br><br>Since I'm in favour of 'fairness' and 'consistency', I agree with Peter<br>that some questions need answering:<br><br>(1) Historically, were all projects charged 5% for donations (yes, is my<br>understanding) and sponsorships (no, Debian wasn't, at least)?<br><br>(2) Once the reality or perception* of miscommunication between SPI and Debain is<br>clarified (who knew or should have known what when; yes, I think this is<br>needed), should we:<br><br> (a) refund Debian for the 2016-2019 sponsorship fees?<br> <br> (b) refund Debian and refund other projects have their sponsorship<br> fees refunded (how far back)?<br><br> (c) not refund Debian for 2016-2019 sponsorsip fees?<br> <br> (d) not refund Debian for 2016-2019 and apply the 5% on Debian sponsorships prior to 2016?<br><br> The point being, how much historical consistency should we strive for.<br><br>(3) Going forward, should we:<br><br> (a) not charge a fee on sponsorships for a year while data is<br> collected (2020 might not be a good year, given conference<br> cancellations)? Again, across all projects' sponsorhips, not just<br> Debian.<br><br> OR<br><br> (b) should we apply the 5% on all projects' sponsorships?<br><br>This has to be tempered with practical realities: do we have the data<br>necessary to make it clear which funds were donations vs sponsorships;<br>is it worth the relationship friction with Debian or the other projects;<br>etc.?<br><br>At the moment, I'm at 2a & 3b so I'd prefer seeing the resolution draft<br>altered to match. If more information is produced indicating recorded<br>written communication between SPI and Debian in 2016/2017 regarding the<br>fee change, then I'd go with 2c (or a partial refund up to the date of<br>that written communication).<br><br>Finally, I don't think the amount of potential refund is material. By<br>this I mean: let's try to do the right thing**, regardless of the<br>amount.<br><br>Happy to hear your thoughts on my position,<br><br>Luca<br><br>* as more people recall their conversations, the picture changes; that<br> said, I'm waiting to see a written communication from around 2016<br><br>** up to the point that it makes SPI insolvent, which this won't<br><br>On Tue, Jun 09, 2020 at 12:18:55PM +0100, Peter Cock wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">Hello Michael, Martin, all,<br><br>I personally agree that inconsistently charging the 5% fee is unacceptable,<br>but<br>not with the proposed remedy. I would rather suggest explicitly granting<br>amnesty<br>on past omissions (assuming no technical objections such as from the<br>auditors),<br>and enforcing the 5% universally pending any future change in policy.<br><br>Aside from DebConf 2016-2019, are any other SPI project conferences which<br>paid 5% fees on their conference income? If so, as Martin points out it<br>would be<br>unfair to only refund DebConf. If not, the proposal should be reworded.<br><br>Other important questions: What is the approximate amount of missing 5% SPI<br>fees potentially owed by DebConf (and other projects)? What is the<br>approximate<br>amount of collected 5% conference income SPI fees collected by DebConf (and<br>others) which might be refunded?<br><br>Thank you,<br><br>Peter<br><br>(Speaking personally, and not as president and former treasurer for the Open<br>Bioinformatics Foundation, nor on behalf of any other SPI project.)<br><br><br>On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:21 AM Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@spi-inc.org> wrote:<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br><br> On Mon Jun 08, 2020 at 23:55:03 +0200, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Also DebConf can not say they do not know about the 5%, as it is<br> well-known and documented per SPIs Projects howto:<br><br> | All transaction costs (such as the fees we are charged to process<br></blockquote>credit<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;">| cards and wire transfers) are deducted from the contribution, to the<br>| extent we are able to identify and attribute these costs. 5% of the<br>| remainder is deducted for SPI overhead. The remaining money is held on<br>| behalf of the project.<br>(Source: <a href="https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/)">https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/)</a><br></blockquote><br> Also our reports that we publish since 2016 contain this information:<br><br> "Per project donations have a debit amount specified, which is the SPI<br> 5% contribution from the project towards the SPI general fund. Thus<br> total donation amount is net of this contribution."<br><br> So if DebConf would had cared more about it, they should have seen this<br> already back in 2016 or 2017.<br><br> Best regards.<br> Martin<br> --<br> Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@spi-inc.org><br> Software in the Public Interest, Inc. | Member of the Board of Directors<br> GPG Fingerprint: 6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B<hr> Spi-general mailing list<br> Spi-general@lists.spi-inc.org<br> <a href="http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general">http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general</a><br><br></blockquote></blockquote><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><hr>Spi-general mailing list<br>Spi-general@lists.spi-inc.org<br><a href="http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general">http://lists.spi-inc.org/listinfo/spi-general</a><br></blockquote><br></pre></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</body></html>